Thoughts for the Week of July 16

[Al Moak]

It's good to know that God knows!

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Morning Devotional...

Psalm 17:1.  "Hear a just cause, O Lord, attend to my cry; give ear to my prayer which is not from deceitful lips."

Even though He is one of God's special people, the psalmist has been accused of lying - of presenting himself as righteous before God when he actually is not.  But he knows that God knows.  He knows that God is fully aware of his innermost thoughts, and he can therefore confidently present his own case.  So he confidently prays, "I have called upon You, for You will hear me, O God."

He continues by confessing that God always saves those He loves and those who trust Him.  With this in mind, he tells God his need:  his enemies are oppressing him ruthlessly,  they refuse to listen to righteous cries for help, and  they speak as if they could do to him whatever they wished.

He prays for God's righteous confrontation of these enemies and he reminds God that they are only concerned for this present life and not for Him and His eternity.

Finally - and most significantly - he confesses his ultimate trust in his covenant God.  In fact, in great confidence he says, "As for me (as opposed to those enemies), I will see Your face in righteousness; I will be satisfied when I awake (in eternity) in Your likeness."

How about you?  Are there people who oppose your Christian life and want to see you discredited?  You need to be reminded  that God knows all about it - and about them and about you.  And, finally, you need to be reminded that the righteousness you desire will one day be yours - for ever and ever!  May you unceasingly give thanks to your Savior!!
Al Moak

Because He Lives
(Click to hear music)


Words and music by William J. Gaither
copyright 1971

"He is not here: for he is risen, as he said.
Come, see the place where the Lord lay."
Matthew 28:6


God sent His son, they called Him, Jesus;
He came to love, heal and forgive;
He lived and died to buy my pardon,
An empty grave is there to prove my Savior lives!


Because He lives, I can face tomorrow,
Because He lives, all fear is gone;
Because I know He holds the future,
And life is worth the living,
Just because He lives!


How sweet to hold a newborn baby,
And feel the pride and joy he gives;
But greater still the calm assurance:
This child can face uncertain days because He Lives!


Because He lives, I can face tomorrow,
Because He lives, all fear is gone;
Because I know He holds the future,
And life is worth the living,
Just because He lives!


And then one day, I'll cross the river,
I'll fight life's final war with pain;
And then, as death gives way to vict'ry,
I'll see the lights of glory and I'll know He lives!


Because He lives, I can face tomorrow,
Because He lives, all fear is gone;
Because I know He holds the future,
And life is worth the living,
Just because He lives!

[/list]

[Larry Hanna]

Hi everyone.  I have a few minutes before leaving for coffee so will post.

We had some really nice rain yesterday and. as I expected when I posted yesterday, it was a nice quiet day.  Our church service lasted about 20 minutes longer than normal and we didn't get home from lunch until about 2:30.  Last week was Bible school and they had 160 kids.  The youth minister had challenged the kids that if they could raise $1,000 for three missionary projects that he would dress up as a cheerleader and lead cheers.  They did (over $1,600) and he did.  They showed a video of it during the children's time and he actually made a pretty good cheerleader.  He then preached a very good sermon.

Etta Sue, sure glad the postal person was found OK.  It sounds like he crashed and couldn't deal with the pressures. 

JudyB, glad the little lambs were safe and sound.  It was nice of your family to help out.

Janet, sounds like you all had a wonderful day with family.  I remember when Curtis left for basic training but also when Abby was much younger.  The time just goes by too quickly.  Hope you are feeling better.

Al, your home is always a good resource if you ever needed to draw upon it so you just changed your type of investment.  In the past, with the appreciation in home values homes usually are worth more later than you paid.  Not sure that is the case on manufacturered homes.  Thanks for the devotional for this week.

Good morning Don, Pat and all who visit with us today.

Marilyn, it sounds like your pastor may have had a kidney stone attack.  Hope it is over by now as know the pain is very severe.

Jane, making decisions is often difficult for people.  Guess it is just wait and see.

[Pat]

Al, thanks for that wonderful devotion today to start us off this week.  I so appreciate it.  He's blessed my heart.

[karmat]

happy monday all!

Bible school is over, and I definitely enjoyed teaching a class more than leading the music.  Kinda odd since I majored in music in college, but oh well.  Fortunately, the lady that did the music loved that roll and wants it again next year.  YEAH!  That means I get to teach again.   (And she did a much better job than me, anyway!)

I think I'm going to start deleting emails that have more than one foward shown immediately.  How many times can a person get the same snoped debunked urban legend in the mail, anyway?  I say that with a smile, but it can be annoying.

I'm going to go do some "house" stuff.  Later

[Etta Sue]

Good morning!! 

Happy Belated Birthday to Judy!!

Karma ~ I don't forward back or reply to any emails that tells me I will have good or bad luck if I do or don't send the message to 7, 10 or more people.  That's a chain letter!!  I sometimes like reading the message but that is as far as they go for me.  And when I open attachments and finally learn that I have seen this one before, then it is deleted right then!  And I detest the petitions that when they reach 200 or more signatures and are to be sent to president@whitehouse.gov.  How easy that would be to email the president of the United States with that email address?  No way!

The mystery goes on and on about the postman.  I just can't imagine him wanting to abandon his family and his job for any reason whatsoever.  Just happy that he is safe but now he has to suffer the consequences and in my thinking, that will be worse than his personal problems could ever be.

I think I will go to Kitty's this afternoon to help her on her entry to the State Fair in the Photography division.  She keeps saying her 'Marilyn Monroe' photo and I don't remember seeing it before. 

Tomorrow is a blood draw and then a teeth whitening.  My dentist is moving to a different office and those who are going with him gets a free teeth whitening.  Fact is, he is closer now to me than he was. 

Then Ivalou is having Euchre at her home at noon.  I will probably be late but since I hope to find something to eat between the blood draw and the dentist, I won't need anything to eat at her house until later.  So she is going to tell them to eat and when I get there we can start playing cards. 

Time to move on....

a.m. p.m. a.m. p.m. a.m. p.m. a.m. p.m. a.m. p.m. a.m. p.m.

[Marilyn]

Good Morning not much new here today so far anyway. It was foggy when I went out to curves and the sun is out now. Looks to be another hot one. Of course HOT to us here ont he west coast could be just  70°.

I read an interesting commentary on Psalm 27:4 in my Women of Faith NIV this morning.

" One thing I ask of the Lord, this is what I seek: that I may dwell in the house of the Lord all the days of my life, to gaze upon the beauty of the Lord  and to seek him in his temple." Psalm 27:4

"Every day we are presented with myriad options for how we will spend our time. and where we will  put our focus. Our  decisions reveal what we most value. As Jesus tells his friend Martha in Luke 10:41-42, there are so many things that demand our attention and energy, and certainly many are important. But "only one thing is needed"--a vital, constant fellowship with the Lord.

David understands this, and it becomes his deepest desire. More than anything else he longs to be conscious of his Father's presence, to worship God's incomparable character, and to be guided moment to moment by his perfect wisdom. Such goals will always be the "one thing" that gives our  lives meaning.

Memorize David's heartfelt words and make them your prayer to the Lord today."

[shutterbugmom]

Good morning everyone!

I'm having my first cup of coffee and I also enjoyed the devotional.  Thanks, Al.

Etta Sue-Yeah!  Praise the Lord your postal worker is safe.

Judy B-Belated Happy Birthday to you!

Karmat-  We are now doing follow up for our VBS and Fun in the Park.  We are taking balloons and pens with our church and contact info. to the families that attended and just telling everyone we are glad they came.  Nothing heavy, just a friendly visit.  Of course, it could turn in to much more, knowing God.    I'm glad you enjoyed teaching.  I enjoy teaching, and taught for many years in VBS but since I started homeschool, I now enjoy the break from it during VBS and my main job is documenting the occasion with my camera and I'm so glad to use my photography for the Lord's work.

The last of our visiting family leaves today and then, it's on to school planning for next year.  This year, I'm not creating all the Science classes, just the electives, so it should be easier.  I went with Dr. Wile's Apologia Science.  I just felt that the Lord was leading us in that direction for this coming year.  Upper high school science is much harder to build and teach from scratch than the elementary and Jr. High was; especially since it wasn't my thing in high school.

It's been really hot here in the mountain states.  Saturday the girls performed with their Irish Dance school and it was 107 degrees.  We won't be doing that.  The shade they promised wasn't there when we arrived.  I think my oldest daughter got mild heat stroke and I went home with a migraine.  Between the heat and the bad air quality from all the smoke in the air from the wildfires, it's just horrible to be outside.  It's even worse to try to exercise in, as you would imagine.  Our air quality is orange right now.  Make for some nice sunsets and moody shots, though.

I've gotten long winded.  If anyone's still reading this, have a great day!  God bless you and you live to serve Him!

[Pat]

Kathleen, I read it to the end and didn't find it long winded! 

It's lovely that you can use your camera for the Lord in that way.  What a great feeling that is to be able to do that.

I have an appointment in awhile and then I have a few errands so I mustn't spend too much time here.

Have a good day everyone.

[Carol]

We went to the gym & exercised, I did the water aerobics - (yawning now), then finished my ironing before it gets too hot this afternoon.  Don just made a late breakfast.  He has an interview in Denver - he is interviewing people for a job - Don volunteers for a state overseen health insurance.  He has three trips this week just for his volunteer work. 

Judy B:  Loved the story about the sheep - another one to remember is never chase geese! Or, turkeys!  Really, don't chase anything.     I love your story because you are so kind to think of the effect of a traumatic end on your children.  We often drive in open-range areas, some people just don't think of what that really means - it means a cow is very likely on the road or perhaps a hundred cows or sheep are on the road - so slow down.  Then, there are always deer, elk and so forth anyway. 

Jane:  It always seems as though other people's decisions take longer than usual. 

Kathleen:  Sorry about your horrible fires in the area.  It is discouraging to say the least.

Carol

Carol

[Marilyn]

I ave been to Curves , came home ate breakfast, and did the dishes. Out again to my Tai Chi class then walked both dog. I am now home again and relaxing for a bit before I get out of this chair to go mow the yards. I am waiting for a friend to call as I am to do some office type stuff for her. I think I have had just about enough exercise for one day, maybe I won't mow today then again maybe I will.

Thank you Al for the lovely devotional this morning.

Hi Carol, Karmat Etta Sue, Pat and Larry.

Sometimes I wonder if  people read what I post, Larry seems to be the only one that comments on them. Or do they just read through so fast and forget what was written.

Etta Sue I see you found your friend Kitty. I read about the mailman and wondered if he was just trying to disappear, or rob a bank since he had a gun and financial problems. So many people are having financial problems lately. Even churches.

Judy I love the story about the sheep and the girls. When I am out walking my dogs it seems like pretty often I am taking a dog back home who has followed us. Or trying to find the home of one I haven't seen before.  Several of my neighbors have Hybrid wolves. Two are very large, one is  about the size of my dogs and looks like a Siberian husky. Happy has been in their yard to play with her.

I have had so many people admire my dogs especially Happy, then they want to know what kind of dog Bebe is. She's an Amstaff and looks like an Amstaff. She gets mistaken for a pit bull all the time. Pit Bull is not a breed. They are Bull Terriers that were bred to go into fighting pits and fight other dogs even bears. But Bebe is a mix not a purebred. An Amstaff is an American bred Staffordshire Bull terrier. (ASBT) Bebe doesn't have the wide head and big mouth of the purebred. Bull Terrier's a good people dogs very
loving.

History/Origin:
Recently recognized as a distinct breed, he descends from the fighting pits of England and America. A variety of breeds were used to develop the "Amstaff" including the Bull Terrier, the Old English White Terrier, the Black and Tan, the Bulldog, the Mastiff, the Pointer, the Dalmatian and the Staffordshire Bull Terrier. His name was changed from the Staffordshire Terrier to the American Staffordshire Terrier in 1972.

[Samantha]

Hi Marilyn, and everyone!

Yes, I read all posts but don't seem to have time to comment.  Shame on me!  I enjoy reading about everyone's days.  Our computer died about 2 wks ago and since getting a new one, I haven 't had time to get online much.

JudyB,  happy belated birthday, I hope it was all you wanted it to be.

Karma, still looking for a new picture of you with the blonde hair.

Gotta run, lunch is over

Later,
Samantha

[Janet]

Judy B--HAPPY BELATED BIRTHDAY!!  And how are the "sheepherders" today?  I had a big grin as I read about all of you trying to chase those woolies off the road.  I hope their owners take responsibility for them in the future.

Marilyn, I always read all the posts, but don't often comment unless there is something that is unusual or really strikes a chord with me.  Sorry.  We all live such divergent lives, with very different interests and tastes.  You love dogs so much, and I cannot even IMAGINE sharing a bed with two huge dogs!!   Different strokes for different folks, one is not better than another, and what a boring world if we were all alike!

I'm glad the mail carrier is safe, and hope he gets his problems sorted out.  He needs God in his life.  I'm not saying he isn't a Christian, but sometimes we forget to ask God to give us wisdom and help with our everyday lives.  Let us know what happens, will you, Etta Sue?


Karma, I'm thinking you are probably an awesome VBS teacher!  Good for you!

Hi, Samantha!

Carol, we have had so many health problems (nothing really serious) and have really gotten out of the habit of going to exercise.  And I NEED it--I just must get back to it!

Our county fair is this week, and I need to frame some paintings to enter.

Shutterbugmom, I cannot imagine developing a high school science curriculum!  I'm glad the public schools were good when my kids were in school, home schooling sounds like a really daunting task.

Hey, Larry!  Hope you are having a great day today.

Grandson Curtis and his wife, Toni, came up today, and Curtis fixed my computer problems, and then went in and fixed Beth's, too.  Gotta love that guy.   They leave for his post in Albuquerque tomorrow.  I did his laundry while he worked on my computer.  What a deal, huh?

I have over-used my hand and arm again today, better get those braces back on and give it a rest.

[Pat]

Actually, Marilyn, I've not heard of the Amstaff.  But my cousin in England raised Staffordshire Bull Terriors.  She had several of them/

[Marilyn]

Amstaffs (American Staffordshire Bull Terriers) are an actual AKC breed. Very well known.

Happy is no longer sleeping with me because my bed is too high and he can't jump up there. I bought him some stairs but he doesn't use them.

[JudyB]

Thank you for the birthday wishes!  and YES I had a good day.  The girls are fine....though it will be an experience they won't forget.

I have my grandson here for a couple of days.  HE will go home on Thursday.  He is waiting for Gramma to take him out to buy a Bible.  On Sunday he goes to camp and will need a Bible for that.

Al thank you for the devotional. 

I have read all the posts, I am not going to comment on them all, just know where there are prayer concerns I am praying.

God Bless
JudyB

[Liz]

Lovely day here on the island.  Not too hot, not too cold....just right! (and that is not a fairy tale)

Lots of interesting posts to read today.  Thank you for the great devotional, Al.  I also loved the music.  It has always been one of my favorites and makes me feel real good....

I went into the small city today to pick up a jacket that was purchased and needed the sleeves shortened.  Was a great bargain and much needed to improve my small wardrobe.  Stopped in at the Sr. Centre where I used to carpet bowl and was warmly greeted.  Felt nice!  I am sort of isolated from other seniors now and it is difficult to get into town on the local bus that covers the valley.  Also takes forever, tho' a nice interesting journey.  One of the ladies that is quite kind and I have known for years, was happy about soon coming to my area in Sept. to live. Possibly we can sometimes go into town together.  I am always happy to contribute to cost of gas, etc.  Will have to wait and see how it goes.

Belated Birthday Greetings, Judy B.  I sure enjoyed your tale about the sheep!

Was reading a news report that stated Canada is the largest user of Marijuana, Alcohol use is 30% higher than global use and we are fourth in the use of cocaine.  Sad!  Especially when so much emphasis is placed on stopping smoking of cigarettes, etc. and even more serious matters are ignored. 

Also read this:
Pope Benedict XVI expressed his intolerance of Christian churches that are not Catholic by saying " ... the Catholic Church is the one true church, and other Christian bodies shouldn't be called churches."

It is very difficult to comprehend that such a learned man as Pope Benedict would issue such a statement. The Catholic Church, under the leadership of Pope John Paul II, had shown love and unity to fellow Christians, as it should be, and now Pope Benedict is unraveling that unity.

I am not Catholic but have had many friends who are, as well as family members.  When will Christians learn that no one church has all the answers and respect the right to make a choice in how to serve God?  Guess not in my lifetime. 

I certainly agree with the comments about e-mails.  Do not care for the chain letter types.

Time to go and tend to Misty.  She is restless from a hard day of play in the garden.

Pleasant Day/Evening and God Bless.

Liz

[Ruth Ann Bice]

Hi, friends,

I'm back from the wedding. It was great and God answered so many prayers about long-held "baggage", etc. The happy couple are now honeymooning, then will leave July 30th going to St. Maarten, where he will be in med school and she will be taking her masters degree online.

Two sweet young folk.

Unfortunately, my son wasn't able to be there, so we all missed him.

Yesterday was a long, long day at work, and I'm going in an hour early today to try to get as much done as possible.

Likely will be taking time off (except for that required morning report), since my son is going to be here in Nashville this week and part of next before heading back home.

Well, must close - y'all have a wonderful day.

I also read all the posts, pray for those with difficulties, and enjoy all the other comments.

Has anyone heard from our member who was to have surgery on the stomach or digestive system? I've worried and prayed and wonder why we haven't heard anything.

[Etta Sue]

Good morning.  I am hydrated and all ready to head to the doctor's office for a blood draw.  Hope they succeed with the first stick! 

Then I am off to the dentist for teeth whitening.  Never had that before so that will be a new experience. 

Then home and over to Ivalou's to play Euchre. 

So it is a busy day. 

I was with Kitty yesterday afternoon.  She is going to Ohio today to get her grandson, Alex, then they are going to St. Louis tomorrow...zoo, Grant's Farm, eating on top of a hotel that the restaurant revolves and it is right on the Mississippi and can see the Arch, too.  He is all excited. 

I have my photos all ready to take to the State Fair the 28th.  Kitty has one to matte and she is ready. 

Gotta run.  Can't keep the doctor waiting....they can keep us waiting but not the other way around.

It is storming outside so I had better get my umbrella also.

>^<+>^<>^<+>^<>^<+>^<>^<+>^<>^<+>^<>^<+>^<>^<+>^<>^<+>^<

[Carol]

Good Morning to everyone!  I got a chuckle out of Karmat's note starting with "Happy Monday"!  Since we don't "work for pay" anymore, it sure is nice to just have more time to tend to our daily duties.

Marilyn:  Good Morning Buddy! 

Liz:  It will be nice for you to have another friend move to your area.  I didn't realize that you were out in a rural area. 

Ruth  Ann:  Do hope that your son is recuperating this week from his migraines.  You must have missed him terribly at the wedding. 

I am on a mission today to write or call the office of the new Muslim Congressman from Minnesota who just made a speech equating Prez. Bush with Hitler.  Cannot stand it when people say such flaming rhetoric.  Shame on them and I intend to spend my valuable day protesting this ugly minded person.  I am a perfectly balanced Republican/Democrat and there is no need for attention-getting evil bias.

Carol

[Marilyn]

Good Morning It is raining here Yippee!!

Thanks for acknowledging that my posts were read. I was more concerned about the Psalm that I quoted and the commentary  after it. I thought it was pretty profound. It really touched my heart. Well as Janet said different strokes for different folks. Although I did find the dog info quite informative too. It was a new discovery for me about the breed.

I got another Job but it doesn't start for a couple of weeks. I will meet the lady tomorrow afternoon, she is still  in rehab recovering from a broken hip. I called all my references last night  so they would be  aware that they will be called. I will be working 5 hours per day 5 days per week at $15. per hour.

Carol yesterday I cut a cardboard 4½ in square for the pattern I think I am going to do a nine patch using  pastel ¼ gingham and white with a lavender border around each set of nine. Then I will hand quilt it instead of tying it.

Hi Samantha I know you will be looking in. How is Terry?

Hi Liz your posts are always so interesting. Glad you got to stop by the Sr. Center and see your friends.

Well I have some things to get done before I got to help my friend with her office work.

[Marilyn]

Now I have two jobs. I will be working  ½ day on Saturdays at the Mini storages here in in Arcata , I have done that before years ago but it isn't hard I already have learned the computer program and proceedure in the 3 hours I was there this morning.

Later

[Carol]

I did it - I called both the Minnesota office and the Washington, D.C. office of the Muslim congressman & politely told them I had to protest his speech comparing Bush with Hitler.  They were polite, took my name & address - I don't care - this is important.  Ugly pictures of people clapping when he spoke those awful words. 

OK - off my soapbox. 

Marilyn:  Nine patch quilts are always so nice & you are going to hand-quilt as well.  Good luck.  I have been doing a little crocheting in the evenings and that is all my hands can take - a little.  Making potholders.  We didn't let our dogs sleep in beds because we wanted them to obey - something about the herd leader or - I forget but we took in strays several times & had to get control.  Some of our farmer relatives really didn't let the dogs inside the houses, they were to be guarding the farm.  We had a Schnauzer for a few years & really do miss that little sweet dog, every time I see one, I just want to bring it home. 

Carol

[Gord Brown]

   Good Evening to you all.  I guess you all thought that I had planned to stay in Scotland for good.  Well we got home on Sunday and we had a wonderful holiday and thankyou for your prayers.  My wife had a fairly good time and was able to do many things as she had her scooter with her. 

My mothers 90th birthday went very well and she could not believe it when her brother and his wife came through the door 
They came from Ireland and they are both getting up in years.

As per usual the weather did its own thing it rained so much but we did get a few good days.

It is so good to read some of your postings and to here that most of you are doing o.k.

  Well hope to keep on the site as often as I can.  May the lord richly bless you all.

Judy B.  Belated birthday and I like the new look .

Pat.  Good to here that Ian was able to get the site going again please say hi to him from me.    Gord and Noreen.

[JudyB]

Welcome back Gord!

We have Johnny here for a couple of days.  What a bundle of energy he is.  I am sure energy is wasted on the young!  HE helped with weeding, sat beside me on the lawn tractor. I took them swimming, and now they have taken the dogs and have gone into the bush.  Later they want to play ball for a while.  I can't keep up.  He will be going home on Thursday and then on Sunday he is heading to camp for a week.

God is so good, as I think on his blessings I am at a loss for words.  

Must run
Love and prayers to all
JudyB

[Marilyn]

Judy that is a wonderful new photo.

[Jane Walker]

Yes, Judy ... That's a great new profile photo.   

[Larry Hanna]

Hi everyone.  I would have been here earlier today but have had trouble with my Internet connection almost all day.  I have been on with the DSL Repair office twice and they may have to come to the house as I am still losing the connection but now it seems to come right back.

For the 13 months I have used a VOIP internet based phone system.  Well about 9:30 last evening my friend sent me an IM to say that SunRocket had declared bankruptcy yesterday and had shut down all operations.  Fortunately I had put in a land line several months ago for the DSL so we still have a phone.  This morning I called the phone company and added unlimited long distance to our account and was pleasantly surprised to learn it would be only $10 a month more and that includes the extras list caller ID and forwarding.  I get the lower rate because I have a bundle of services otherwise the package would have been an extra $20 a month.  This will actually be less expensive than the VOIP I was using.  So hopefully our phone situation is under control.

I have read all the messages but not going to make individual comments this evening as there are too many.  Be back tomorrow.  (Judy, I do like your new photo--very nice.)

[Carol]

Don't eat chocolate too soon before bedtime ---- it will cause me tonight to have sleeping problems. 

Larry:  Glad that you were able to get that problem under control.  Always something.

Gord Brown:  I would love to hear about your trip to Scotland, where you enjoyed it the most and what to see - we want to go there late fall.  Those scooters are wonderful and such a help to difficult walks. 

Carol

[Janet]

Carol, good for you for making those calls!  It just stunned me that Minnesota would elect a Muslim to Congress. 

Judy, I really like your new photo.  I have been wanting a new one put on for over two years, but don't know how to do it. 

Welcome home, Gord!  Scotland is another place I would like to go--my list keeps growing.

Darrel and I just spent two hours watching a DVD I had made from the old 8mm movies we took years ago.  I sure wish they had edited out all the blank spots.  I guess it might be much easier to edit from DVD format than from the reels of movie tape.  I got copies for my girls for Christmas.  They look so cute in the movies--even cuter than I remember.   (Sound like a Mom, don't I?)

Carol, I never thought about chocolate keeping me awake............hmmmm.....maybe.........I will have to watch that, as I have a terrible time getting a decent night's sleep.

Congrats on the new job(s) Marilyn.

Larry, sounds like you got a real deal on your phone.  Ours costs a lot more than that, for sure.

Time to get some shut-eye, if possible.

[Pat]

Welcome home, Gord.  Great that you had a good time with your mother and family.

Could we all please watch the Introductions area and welcome the new folks as they introduce themselves?  Thanks!  Here's one that needs some welcomes:

http://www.christianphotographers.com/community/index.php?topic=6226.0