Christian Photographers Community

Something to talk about...[/font]

No one commented on this I don't think.  So let's continue it today.

If someone says to you, "But I don't believe the Bible is true."

How can you prove to them that the Bible is true and it is God's Word?  It would be good to back up your answer with scripture.

This will be a good discussion!







Morning Devotional...


Now what hast thou to do in the way of Egypt, to drink the waters of Sihor? or what hast thou to do in the way of Assyria, to drink the waters of the river?[/i]
Jeremiah 2:18


It was a time of trial and the roads leading to the rivers of Egypt and Assyria were especially inviting to God's people.

They would soon learn, however, that it is an "evil and bitter thing" to forsake the Lord and turn to the world for satisfaction.

How is it with you?

Are you tempted to go the way of the world and to drink from its supply, especially when the way is hard?

Don't faint now.
--Mark Kolchin

Good Morning from England.

Pat you are not in your bed!!!...Oh dear, whatever shall we do with you?  Have you got a bed? P'raps we can have a whip round and collect for one for you..ha ha!!!  Thank-you for your words this morning. My road is a bit  difficult at the moment but I wouldn't change direction..."My heart is fixed."

We have spring rains here today and it is quite cold in this part of Blighty right now.

My littlest cat Becky is still very, very poorly.  The vet said that the steroid injection  would take 48 hours to act...if it's going to but she is such a tiny cat anyway and she had a bad haemorrhage last week.....It was not from her teeth...She has Jaundice....He said that is why she lost lots of weight so suddenly, due to her liver.  This he says is a common thing with cats and it is not my fault.  She has to see Mr. Fox again on Monday and he will then decide what to do.....We don't want to lose her, she's 14 now and the dearest, most gentle little thing (except with mice).She's nibbling at tuna, but she did manage some egg beaten up in milk earlier.  He suggested some pasta for her when she gets going a bit better. She has always looked like a kitten beside our Pushkin cat!!!....He's the Beast of Birmingham....watch out for him you rats over in  the allotments.

My son Chris' tonsils are causing him some pain again so I am praying for a miracle and a sudden cancellation at the hospital for an early operation....Our God is the God of Remarkable Surprises.

Paulette.  God bless you and your dear ones...You are a wise mother and yes you must put the children's needs before your own pleasures...I hope to see you again one day.

"to all who - like those Christians in the book of Acts - look at who they are now and who they'll never be, and what they can do now and what they'll never be able to do....and still ask God for the world." (B.H. Wilkinson)

Blessings in Jesus' Name.
Jenny

GOODMORNING ALL 11.32 AM in Holland 

PAT thank you very much for the devotional this morning
very good.

JANET thank you for your lovely words to me yesterday.

URSULA when you still have problems with making graphics then go to Practice Board and Messages there has our dear Pat write a lot how and what you must do. It was for me also difficult in the beginning. But there can you a lot learn. On Ria's place page 1.   

CHRIS thank you very much for the site with
hymn  the Song My Jesus. i love Thee they have i in Dutch on a CD singing true one man i love that song so much
when i am a little bit down. Then i always listen to that song
and i am then also singing and it is making me happy. There are standing more beautiful songs on that CD but all in Dutch.

On the question is was staying in the Bible true. For me i say yes i talk a lot with my husband he is now reading the children Bible he is not Christian he say yes i beleive that there is a God but then he ask always How can there then be such a lot war also Christians are making war.Why is God doing nothing in Him is peace and then i also can give sometimes no answer then i also must think what must i say and he is not a great talker.
But that is very difficult for me.
Now is coming today The Passion in Holland my son say to me are you going i say maybe but i must go alone now say my son you may also go with me and my friends.
But my husband say i also go i have it just read in the children Bible i will also seen the movie. But for me is what in the Bible is staying true.Thuesday he must coming by our own doctor he will talk with him about his snoring. The assistent form the doctor was talking about injection others to the hospital in the city Groningen.

This afternoon i am going a view hours to the nursing home and it is again sunny in Holland but not so warm as yesterday.

Love and prayerfully for you all
Ria                         

Trying to convince a non-Christian that some person walked on water, healed the sick, dead people were raised to life, fed 5000 people with a small basket of bread and fish and that a virgin gave birth to our Jesus is impossible.  To many of these non-Christians it is easier to believe that there are UFO's flying around with martians than to believe there is a God.  Many I speak to say there is no God and yet they are willing to believe in Ghosts and Spirits.

The argument is not whether the Bible is true, it is more a question of whether the person talking to you knows Jesus and is willing to follow Him in obedience.  Many Christians I talk to  will deny the veracity (truthfulness) of scripture.  They are without the understanding that the whole of scripture speaks of our Creator, who is intimately involved with His creation and it is a book designed by God to help His people live proactively with His creation.  The Bible is perfectly inspired by God, not as a scientific formulary; but as a handbook on living in a hostile and angry world.

We Christians need to understand God is at work around us, He invites us to join Him in His work.  We need to respond positively and obediently; and when we do, God will bless us in abundance.  The arguments given by non Christians about the Bible and its supposed contradictions are red herrings designed to steer us away from that vibrant and personal relationship wth God and create doubt and confusion... the "gotcha" syndrome.

This is how I work through the objections:
1/ I state and stand firm in my belief that the Bible is true. 
2/ I ask what specific part of the Bible is not true. (I listen to the objection/answer)
3/ I restate their answer accurately in my own words.
4/ Again I listen to their justification.
5/ I give them a mini testimony of my own life and conversion.
6/ I tell them why I believe the Bible to be true and how it enriches my personal relationship with Jesus.
7/ I ask them if they would like to have a personal relationship with God.
They will either accept the invitation, reject it or want to know more.

I am sure you all have your own methods but this has worked for me.  Several people I have used this with are now themselves in the ministry or actively involved in the Church.  Alcoholics, thieves, drug and sex addicts have been set free from their addictions.  We do not try to convince people our understanding is better than theirs, we introduce them to Jesus.

I'm with Gareth - I'm not smart enough to be able to argue and win on the scientific evidence that proves the Bible is true.  I think we should know how to POINT someone to that evidence, but it is a very unwise lay Christian (pastors and professors have a little different responsibility here) who attempts to argue the Bible based on scientific fact.  What most non-believers cannot get over is that they have been lied to by the scientific community.  They simply cannot believe that all their high school science teachers are wrong.  It just doesn't fit their world view. 

I believe we should study Creation proofs and apologetics, but I would be very careful about arguing with someone based on my VERY limited knowledge.  I've had discussions with people I know fairly well, but not really in a "witnessing" situation. 

Always follow the Holy Spirit, but don't lean on your own knowledge.  Those people can EASILY make you look and feel silly, and will often shake your faith if you really go deep with them. 

I can only testify to what God has done for me. 

That said, it's very wise to study the scientific proofs.  They'll reinforce your faith and prepare you for those questions your sincere friends ask "Is the Bible really true?"

Knowledge is a great thing, but we should never depend on knowledge.  Always depend on the Holy Spirit to convict and soften, and do what He leads you to do.

By the way, HELLO EVERYBODY!  Bye, Paulette, sorry to see you go

well thanks to all of your for your friendship and thanks for the lovely farewells and you can rest assured that i will try to pop in when at the library occasionally.
God bless you all and have a wonderful day.
IN the Grace and love of our heavenly Father.
Paulette

We got some good talk going on in here. 

I don't know enough about the Bible to thump anyone.

Chandraya lost her first tooth yesterday. She was so jazzed.  Most her friends have lost more than one tooth. 

I am trying to fight a cold before it hits me to hard.  Seems to be working but I can't sleep for some reason.


HI Jenny! Sorry to hear about your cat.    That is sad.

Jesus said, "Your strong love for each other will prove to the world that you are my disciples.
John 13:35 LB

Pat, what does "sticky this topic" mean?

Good morning, I think?  It is only 6 A.M. and not yet certain about what is happening outside.  Lots happening here, though. 

Thanks for the great devotional Pat.  Also thanks to Gareth & Nards...lots of good tips.  When getting into such discussions, my first thoughts seem to be, "Oh Lord, give me the patience I need; and do please hurry up about it."

Amanda is leaving at 6:30 to go with her school class to something or other in Vancouver.  A long ferry trip ahead.  Schools do have such interesting trips these days.  I believe this is about Fashion Design, with a side trip to a great restaurant in Gastown.  Lucky!!

Ria, I read about some new treatment for snoring.  It is all a little vague in my mind but it seems a strip of Polyester Material is placed on the roof of the person's mouth.  It was an article in the newspaper and since this is not a problem for me, I didn't pay much attention.  The treatment is being used by doctors.  Might pay to check around and get some info as it sounded promising.....

Pat, did you ever have this problem:

A boy was watching his father, a pastor, write a sermon. 
"How do you know what to say?" he asked.
"Why, God tells me."
"Oh, then why do you keep crossing things out?"

Time to go and get ready for the new day. 
Hope you visit the library often, Paulette.

God Bless.  Liz

<karmat waves to Paulette>

Another smilie issue -- If I insert a smilie, then push enter, it just keeps entering the smilies for me!  Are ya'll sure I'm the only one having the smilie problems??

Is the Bible true?  I try to point people (non-believers) to the historical evidence that it was written by so many different people, over so many years, yet doesn't contradict itself.  When they say it does, I ask them to show me where.   I have found, in my few discussions of this, that using scripture to back myself up usually doesn't work, especially if the person has a hard heart.  They don't believe it is true in the first place, scripture will not help to convince them, unless the Holy Spirit is really drawing them to seek.  Unfortunately, most people I see in this situation are only looking to argue.

For Christians, however, I think using passages where Jesus is quoting the Old Testament, and fulfilled NT prophecies like in Isaiah and Daniel can help.

I've got a busy day today.  Gonna try to get hte house cleaned up (surprise Nard!) because we have a wedding to go to this weekend and will be gone most of the weekend. 

Hope you all have a wonderful day. 

love
karmat

Good morning, friends!  I have a busy day today with more framing to work on plus my class this afternoon.

Abby doesn't want to ride 5 hours to attend Open House at K-State, so tomorrow I will go get her for the weekend.   

Such awful news out of Iraq last night.   Come quickly, Lord Jesus!

Good discussion about proving the truth of the Bible.  I don't have anything to add at this point.  I need to "rehearse" before opening my mouth. (or my keyboard, in this case.)  I do believe in the unerring truth of the Word of God.

Talk to you kids later!

Good Morning: This discussion on  "How do you tell someone the Bible is True" and back it up with Scriptures, is a discussion I usually try to avoid or just back away from until pushed into a corner.

My Bible knowledge is not great enough to back what I say with  scripture. I have had these discussions with my son so frequently and he is so hard hearted that I just give up and and shut up.

Monday night on the news I heard that our California Governor (Swartzenneger) has said he is going to cut off funding  for the program that I work for.  There are so many people  who are disabled and aged that will lose the services of a caregiver.

There are not enough care home or hospitala to hold all the people who will be without these services. Please pray that this funding will not be cut offf. I am not so concerned about my  job but more for those who need the help. I am going to write to the Governor.  Fay, My client, is legally blind and she will be forced to go into a home.

TTYL

Hi everyone. 

Marilyn, if the person has no funds then the State medicaid program (or whatever it is called in California) would likely have to pick up the tab for the person being in a nursing home.  Unfortunately a state struggling financially has to make some very difficult decisions and most often some group is hurt in the process.

I really have nothing to add to the discussion today and Gareth and Nards I thought your comments were very good.  I also look forward to other comments.

We are leaving in about 5 minutes to meet our former daugher-in-law at the restruant where she works.  Our step-grandson has something for us he didn't want to mail and as they live quite a distance from us we agree to pick it up from her.  We think it may be his high school graduation photo and certainly hope that is what it is as we don't have a good picture of him since he was small.
Following that we will go to the church for Calvin Cove and for Pat to fix the children's packets for the Sunday service.

Janet and Etta Sue, I asked at the library yesterday about the new "Left Behind" book but they apparently haven't ordered it yet.  I look forward to reading it.


Jenny, sorry to hear that your cat is ailing.  Hope the shot helps.

I am busy getting ready for our little trip on Sat.  Getting the dance stuff all together.  Fun! 

I'll be on later.

Where is everyone?

Good morning, everybody.  Just popping in to say "HI".

Ursula

I'm just watching the news of a huge 50+ car pile-up on I-15 in California.  What a mess!

I am just taking a few minutes' break before my painters get here.  I got all my mats cut and finished two framing jobs.  Can't finish the rest until the frames get here.

Larry, I think I am in about Chapter 6 in The Glorious Appearing---it's really good!  Got it at Wal Mart for $14.86.  Now Beth and I have the complete set.

See you all later.  Hey, Pat!  Where are you??

I heard from Pat late last evening. Hopefully she's fine.

I can't go into the prayers and praise discussion, since Leslie and I are leaving for Atlanta.

I've read almost all of the prayer requests. You know I'll be praying for y'all as you navigate down life's highways. Sometimes there are bumps in the road, and sometimes unexpected crossroads, and sometimes even a train crossing guard rail. I'll be praying for His will to be done in each situation. He's our Maker and knows every heartache, every difficulty, every mistake we make (and is quick to forgive), and I'll just leave the answers in His capable hands.

Ruth Ann

I apologize!

I've been so busy deleting photos, etc. to free up room on our server that I forgot to come in here and say "Hello" to y'all!

Ruth Ann, please drive safely.  We'll be remembering you as you drive!


Now Everyone!

We have two new challenges!!!

April~1st Bi-Weekly Challenge~WOOD


and


April Monthly Challenge~WATER 

Well I can't add my two cents worth, because everybody else already put in 1.9 cents worth (at least).  So I'll just throw in my 0.1 worth.

I don't believe you or I can prove to another person that the Bible is true.  But God can, and if He does, then they'll believe it.  As some Have already said, I think we need to point people to our Lord Jesus Christ, and I think we need to tell them what He has been and now is to us.  Then I think we have to leave the rest to God.  When we meet a soul who is warming up to the truth of the Word, then we can talk about how our Lord quoted OT sayings as truth and about how Paul said that "Every Scripture inspired by God is profitable ..."  But let God do the warming first.

There are several things which help support our faith in the Bible as being God's word.  One is the many prophecies of the Old Testament which are fulfilled in the New Testament.  Another is the power of the love in the story of Jesus which has a way of appealing to the hearts of men.  Also we should not forget  the fact that there is something in the hearts of men which make them want to have something they can believe in.  But Al has alluded to, maybe, the most important thing which is the power of God and the working of the Holy Spirit.

Most any Christian book store will have books which may help one who is interested in pursuing the subject.

2 Tim 3:14-17
14   But as for you, continue in what you have learned and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom you learned it,
15   and how from infancy you have known the holy Scriptures, which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
16   All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,
17   so that the man of God may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.  (NIV)



--- Old Papa John    <)))><<
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Good evening to everyone - I'm late coming again, I know.  But even after most have left I enjoy the devotion and all the posts.

April has begun with it's famous showers and it looks like more of the same for at least another five days.  Our back yard is now a quagmire and there are flood watches and warnings in all the low-lying areas.  But at least it's staying above freezing.   

Hi Gareth, most people who don't believe the Bible are non-Christians and they don't want any change in their life so they make this an excuse.

The way you work through this objection is very good and I'm sure you could convince a non-believer to accept the Bible as the inspired Word of God.

You are right Nards about not arguing with someone.

In EE we have been trained to use a couple of methods.  One method is called the "Judo Approach"  Usually this objection comes from a University student,   When a person says " I don't believe the Bible is true"  I would say "What is your understanding about what the Bible says about eternal life?"  They would say "I just don't believe" and I would say again "I'm not asking what you believe, but what is your understanding about how a person can have eternal life and go to heaven?"  The person usually says things like "Well I guess you need to keep the 10 commandments, or do good things, or be as good a person as you can"   At this point I would say "You see, I was afraid of your answer, you have judged a book without even knowing what it says, your answer is not only incorrect but it is diametrically opposite to what the Bible says about this subject.   Now I think a more intellectual approach would be to let me tell you what the Bible says about how a person can have eternal life and go to heaven and then you can decide whether you want to accept it or reject it!"  At this poing they would hear the gospel!

I will post again about another method that is very good.

God Bless

Ruthie

That is an awesome explaination, Ruthie.  I will have to copy that and memorize it.  Thank you!

I just got back from working out at the club.  I have a horrible cough now.  grrr...I feel like it will last another day or two then be gone.  Hopefully.

Did you all read that Chandraya lost her first tooth yesterday? 

Karma and Nards, have fun at the wedding this weekend.  Does Travis usually behave during those events?  Lila Mae is so loud that we usually have to take her outside or something.  We are teaching her how to whisper. hehee...that is tough.

I better get the kids ready for bed and stuff.

later
Soni

Great discussions, living the truth is another way of showing that the Bible is true.

Pat: Thanks for the devotional and all of your devoted work.

Chandraya: I have a little one my School Bus that was thrilled when her first tooth came out but now she is a little sad.   Her new tooth is not coming in fast enough.

Ria:  It is so wonderful that your Husband wants to go and see the movie with you.  Praise The Lord.

We have had rain in this part of Canada all day and I think that it is to continue throughout the weekend as well with perhaps some snow to the north of us.

Pat: Safe driving tomorrow.

Good night all

CONGRATULATIONS, CHANDRAYA!!Now, is the Tooth Fairy coming to see you tonight?  Five is young to lose a tooth, many kids do not lose one until they are six or more.  I started losing mine at four.

Soni, I do hope you get rid of your cold/cough quickly.  Those things can make you feel so miserable.

It's time to go to bed, I just stopped by to bid you all a good night.  Have to go get my favorite six year old in the morning!

GOOD NIGHT!!

Not very busy here today. Here it is 8pm in California and still on page 2.

I posted a couple of playful pics for y-all to enjoy. I had fun taking them and editing  the one.  Those horses are so cooperative I just love them.

Nitey nite.


PS Soni, Do you have plenty of Zinc on hand? Zinc lozenges or  "Cold-Eze" will really help you. I have just kicked a cold completely out, using Zicam, Cold-Eze and Vitamin C. I never did get the cold that was coming on since Friday.

Imagine with me back to the year 1746. A ship is docking on the coast of West Africa. Its purpose is to snatch unsuspecting people and sell them as slaves in the far off countries. The captain of this ship is known far and wide for his debauchery, vulgarity and blasphemy.

But one day in 1748, while reading the book "The Imitation of Christ" by Thomas a Kempis, our captain comes face to face with his sin and turns his life over to Jesus, the Savior of sinners.

Our captain is John Newton. After his conversion and dedication to Christ, he became a pastor and hymn writer.

His most famous of hymns, "Amazing Grace", is a testimonial of his conversion to Christ.

From:  http://schfrs.crosswinds.net/hymns/amazing.htm

Let's sing it!







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Pat I bumped into you posting at the same time and then editing my post. How are you tonight?

Hi Marilyn...

This is one of my very busy days and I'm running around like a hen....  well you know the rest of the saying!  LOL

Avon order arrived, had to drive to Andrew's to pick up the stamped books from Rebecca who stamps them with the date and my name, came back and I'm working on the minutes for the Guelph Hiking Trail Club and I have to go to London tomorrow!  So, you can imagine.

Just rushing around.

Thanks for asking.

Nice to see Jules post in the Introductions! 

Thank you Sonja.. This is a one good method to explain how we know the Bible is God's Word and wonderful truth.

Well it is time for bed.    I will give another approach to our discussion on the Bible tomorrow.

Love Ruthie

Yes, isn't it wonderful how Jesus can change the worst of sinners.  How can one explain something so simple, yet so profound?  Have always felt that the best way to prove a point is by example.  Sort of...'the proof is in the pudding' approach.  Even the hardest of hearts find it difficult to deny what is obvious. 

Tomorrow Wendy & I are going to go and clean Karen's home.  Karen is in the hospital and seriously ill.  Things keep going from bad to worse, so to speak.  They have a 17 yr. old son and a 13 yr. old foster son.  They are not Christians, but are good folks.  Prayers would be nice.  I am hoping they might feel a little of our Christian love and a seed will be planted.  God works in his own way and time.

God Bless.  Liz

Sonja, good to hear you had an exciting event in your house.   Did Chandraya put her tooth under her pillow for the tooth fairy to bring her some money?   Fun eh!  God Bless.

Love Ruthie

OK, a couple of minutes early.  I'm still working away here doing the minutes.

Congratulations, Chandraya, losing your first tooth! 

Talk to you when I can tomorrow...  I'll be in London.

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